Radio Galaxy Zoo Talk

Ordinary zooites' experiences, expectations, etc (an attempt to create a consolidated thread)

  • JeanTate by JeanTate

    At least three recent threads contain posts on essentially the same topic, namely our own experiences, how we became involved in RGZ, and what we love about being a part of our project (to quote from this thread).

    The threads are Exclusive interview with our recent Citizen Science co-authors, New RGZ Publication - Giant WAT (which is obviously closely related), and Status of RGZ (which accidentally has started to be about this topic).

    If it's possible, maybe the relevant posts could be moved here? Or, if not, maybe they could be copied?

    I plan to continue to the discussion here, rather than adding to any of those existing threads.

    Posted

  • JeanTate by JeanTate

    Tim_F wrote:

    I'm wondering if you, and other RGZ citizen scientists, have any ideas on how our users can personally be involved in expanding and maintaining that higher classification level?

    From experience, recommendations from friends and family have a higher impact upon uptake of involvement in activities, so maybe a similar experience will be felt in this case. Have you JeanTate, and all users, had any experience with discussing RGZ and Zooniverse projects with friends, family members and colleagues?

    My FFM&C (friends, family members, and colleagues) are all very well aware of my enthusiasm and involvement (going back close to a decade), as are a lot of my former students, etc. It's something I almost always talk about; so much so that some are, I'm sure, quite sick and tired of hearing me 'spout on'! I'm sure at least some have become involved in one or more CS (citizen science) projects, at least somewhat, though none (to my knowledge) are interested in RGZ 😦 And many quite happily give freely their computer cycles by joining one or more BOINC projects.

    Is there anything the RGZ team could do to support you in having more positive experiences?

    Sure. Lots. But that's the subject of separate post ...

    Posted

  • JeanTate by JeanTate

    Tim_F also wrote:

    May I ask, is there one particular reason you continue to participate in the Zooniverse? [...] I'd love to hear your thoughts as you are an active user 😃

    No, not one particular reason; here are some:

    • the joy of learning that some of my fellow zooites are co-authors in published, RGZ-related, papers
    • the possibility of discovering something new, like a Giant WAT (i.e. serendipitous discovery)
    • the opportunity to learn some radio astronomy, at a level that allows me to read - and understand! - papers in this field
    • the chance to share what I've learned with my fellow zooites (one of my careers was teacher)
    • the thrill of stumbling on a source that likely has a redshift > 4
    • the hope that I can influence how RGZ develops, to become a model CS project

    And whether you feel there is something that the RGZ and Zooniverse could do to keep participants engaged throughout an entire project? And whether you feel there is something that the RGZ and Zooniverse could do to keep participants engaged throughout an entire project?

    That's very similar to the last question I quoted in my last post. Same answer, especially that's the subject of separate post ...

    Posted

  • JeanTate by JeanTate

    Tim_F asked:

    Is there anything the RGZ team could do to support you in having more positive experiences?

    and

    [Do] you feel there is something that the RGZ and Zooniverse could do to keep participants engaged throughout an entire project? [Do] you feel there is something that the RGZ and Zooniverse could do to keep participants engaged throughout an entire project?

    The answer is yes. Lots.

    I'll start with just one, concerning independent research.

    Not many people reading this know about Letters, I reckon. Rather than explain, I urge you to read A Letter about Letters, on the Letters website.

    Why is Letters essentially dead? Why did so few zooites write a Letter? Why did the Zooniverse, and Zooniverse projects, never promote it (other than GZ and PH)? Why has the Zooniverse never developed Letters? I've often tried to answer, and sometimes even tried to get answers; I have come up completely empty.

    For some time now, together with some RGZ Science Team members and some fellow ordinary zooites, I have been doing research on SDRAGN candidates; see Hourglass sources associated with spiral galaxies and "Live" Spiral DRAGNs chat for an introduction. If Letters were alive and well (and had substantially improved its functionality), I'd likely have already written several on SDRAGNs.

    Suppose I want to write up the results of my research, and make them available to the world? What are my options? Here are a few:

    • write up a full scientific paper, try to get it on arXiv, submit it to MNRAS (say)
    • ditto, but publish it on viXra
    • ditto, but on something like Authorera
    • create my own website, and publish there

    The first is, by far, the best option: by trying to write a paper, I learn first-hand what's actually involved; if my research has any scientific merit, that's the only way that merit would be recognized (of course, it's possible an unscrupulous astronomer might discover my publication, and 'steal' the work by somewhat re-writing it and publishing it under their own name, without acknowledging the source).

    In my interactions with various scientists associated with one Z project or another, one reaction to the idea of an ordinary zooite writing a scientific paper I may characterize as disbelief/derision/discouragement (even something like "I'd never add my name, as co-author, if the lead author were an amateur" ... no, no one actually said this). Others have been very encouraging and supportive.

    Another response has been something like this (no, no one actually said this): "You're obviously smart, and enthusiastic. Go to university, get a BSc and then a PhD. First." Which makes an awful lot of sense, right? I mean, almost every lead author of every MNRAS paper (say) did this, right? But what if that path is not open to you (you'd be surprised at how closed that path is, to an astonishingly large number of people)?

    (lots more I could write, this is already tl;dr, right?)

    So, my answer is: work with zooites (and whomever else necessary) to create means by which zooites can conduct good, independent, scientific research, with modest support from astronomers; create a means by which they can publish the results of such research (and get recognition for that which has scientific merit). Perhaps focus around serendipitous discoveries.

    Posted

  • Tim_F by Tim_F scientist

    You have a brilliant passion for seeing Citizen Science projects, such as RGZ, succeed! Don't ever lose that!

    One recommendation I gather from your responses is that a positive impact would be felt for the Zooites (as well as increasing the number of participants) if RGZ and Z projects increase their communication streams to further highlight things such as co-authorship, potential new discoveries, further opportunities to learn about radio astronomy, the chance to share discoveries and interpretations with other Zooites. With the major one being advertising that participants actually do have the potential to influence the development of Z projects.

    Is this an accurate interpretation of your view? Do you see greater communication in these areas leading to increased participation rates? And is there one specific feature you feel RGZ should promote above all others?

    I am also wondering that if RGZ, and other Z projects, were to develop promotional material, do you (and all other Zooites feel free to comment also) feel that this would benefit your ability to successfully promote these projects to friends and family? Would you be willing to participate in sharing posts on social media, or doing the classic physical postering of noticeboards, to increase participation?

    I will respond to the other post in a short while 😃

    Posted